Why Getting Upset Over “All Lives Matter” is Counterproductive

Saw this video … “What’s Wrong With Saying All Lives Matter?  Don’t They?”

Yes, they do.  The people who are saying it agree with you.

I do understand what “Black Lives Matter” is supposed to mean. And if it stopped there, with people marching in the streets, there wouldn’t really be a controversy.

But it doesn’t. This first came to light in Ferguson, MO in 2015 when this phrase made its way into the lexicon as known in every household. (A similar thing happened with Rodney King in LA in 1991. Rodney was not killed, and to his credit later famously asked “Why can’t we all just get along?”)

What happened in Ferguson?

Riots, vandalism, and fires. Multitude of minority-owned businesses destroyed. People getting shot in their cars. Cops being shot and killed just for being cops. And here’s the kicker — there was a serious attempt to justify all of this by the media, and by the more visible leaders in the BLM movement itself.  Law enforcement was told to stand down and let. it. happen. Media agreed.  Story after story about the violence being justified.  (The anger and the violence are two different things – but not according to the media narrative).

That’s when they lost people. “Black Lives Matter” turned into an excuse to lash out against innocent people. Coupled with the racist concept of “White Privilege”, it became an attack … on people … based on race.

You can’t get any more racist than that. If you don’t see the danger in justifying any form of racism – and they do want systemic justification here that legally treats one race different from another in an attempt to “correct” existing racism — you’re ignoring a time bomb.  (Or maybe you’re building it.)

It is argued that it’s NOT negative, and all that’s being asked is that it be acknowledged.  Here’s a hint. If your rhetoric causes large groups of white people to come together to  “denounce” their “White Privilege” – then you have made it a negative thing.  The sad thing here is that the next time any of these people run into someone who thinks they are inherently racist because they are white will not have any way of showing that their white privilege has been “denounced”.  They don’t get a denunciation card, or a tattoo on their forehead.  Their skin is white.  If anyone should be able to understand that kind of judgement, it should be black people.  (But that might bring us together, so we can’t have that.)  In other words, their religious ceremony here did nothing but make them feel better for a few minutes.

You cannot fight racism with racism. Racism is wrong not because of the race being discriminated against. Racism is wrong because it is inherently unfair to the individual person, like Chris Thomas.

Chris Thomas, being a law-abiding citizen, has very little chance of suffering the fate of a Rodney King, or a Michael Brown, or a George Floyd, precisely because of the way he has lived his life, the choices he has made — he is very unlikely to be engaged in an activity that is going to result in a summoning of law enforcement — UNLIKE the people I just mentioned. And if he does, say, get pulled over for speeding, he is probably innately aware, as are most of the rest of us, of how not to get your ass kicked by the police (which is a different topic than should the police be kicking your ass at all).  Chris Rock, like Candace Owens, was not wrong.

Now I acknowledge that because of racial stereotypes there could be a greater chance that, say, someone like Juan Williams might cross the street to avoid an unnecessary encounter with a young black man giving off certain social (in this case anti-social) signals. Signals I’d be willing to bet that Chris Thomas doesn’t give off. This is an issue that needs to be addressed.

The blame for much of the misconceptions around this lay directly at the feet of the people in Chris Thomas’ profession. In this very piece he says he feels like black lives don’t matter because, (note the irony of where his information comes from) “it’s scary when I read headlines like this in a major newspaper:

‘Getting Killed by Police a Leading Cause for Young Black Men in America’

Which is at best misleading. And it’s coming from the media. You want to know what the leading cause of death is for young black men (late teens to late 20’s) is?

Homicide by other black men.  Not allowed to point that out without being excoriated as racist.  But it’s a fact, verifiable on the CDC’s website and other sources.

For black men in their mid to late 20’s, “Police Force” accounts for 3.4 percent. Which is high compared to other races.

The question is, why?

If you answer anything other than “racism”, you are immediately and widely scorned and excoriated.

But what if it isn’t?

The fact that you will also immediately get excoriated for merely asking the question (ask Candace Owens) points to the fact that the problem is not being taken seriously. Let’s put it another way. What if we’re trying to solve the wrong problem?

If we are, it will never get better, will it? And we DO want it to get better … right? Can we at least agree on that?

If your faucet is leaking, and you think it’s a bad gasket, but it’s really a crack in the valve, constantly replacing the gasket will not fix the problem.

If you are forbidden to ask “what if it isn’t the gasket?” you’re never going to get the root of the actual problem addressed.

Back to “why”, what if a disproportionately large number of young black men are involved in activities that warrant police involvement? Let’s just suppose that is true. (Because it is.) Let’s also suppose that the victims of the majority of the crimes being committed by these people are … other black people. Because they are. So the police are disproportionately being called to protect black people from young black men. If you increase encounters with the police among a certain demographic, the chances of a cop going rogue against people of that demographic (young black men) will be disproportionately higher. This is not rocket science.

So the next question you’re not allowed to ask, or if you do you cannot answer anything but “obviously, racism” is … why are a disproportionately high number of young black men involved in these activities?

If you can answer that question without just sticking to the “R” word, and really honestly discuss the social influences not only outside, but inside the black community – and the fact that there is such a thing as a “black community” rather than just a community is part of that problem — you can begin to address the problem.  There are a lot of black people who agree with me here, but they can’t say it without being alienated as an Uncle Tom House N*****.

And if you think the problem is the Police — who are coming to protect black people mainly from from young black men and your solution is to defund the police, may I humbly submit that you’re out of your damned mind.  Black Lives are not what matter to you – your addiction to virtue signalling is.

Until then, it’s 1) young black man gets killed by a police officer 2) Protests and riots ensue, aimed mainly at people who cannot address the core problem and further alienating them, and 3) Repeat.

That doesn’t lead anywhere good.

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About philmon

Part mountain junkie, part decent amateur photographer, part survivalist, part not-so-decent amateur musician, part sysadmin. Husband, step-dad, grandpa, and music freak who digs mechanical clocks, barometers, and Gil Elvgren pinups. Studied Meteorolgy & Computer Science. And the U.S. Constitution.

52 thoughts on “Why Getting Upset Over “All Lives Matter” is Counterproductive

  1. Southern Belle

    I have friends all along the political spectrum and I had been doing a fairly good job at being in the middle. But I have one from MA who rants about white privilege every time we go to lunch. This white lady lives in a multi-million dollar home that has gates she locks in a Southern city that is a monument to what she loathes. I am this close to pointing out the irony of her deluded view and telling her she should return to the place of her birth. Or I could challenge her to a duel. (I wonder if these prescription drugs made in China are at the root of all this lunacy?? ) Anyway, I had a point but lost it. Oh yeah, there are indeed many social issues that need addressing that are being ignored, as you pointed out. Black women, for instance, have a higher murder rate than white men and it’s not us killing them. Guess who? Why isn’t this woman concerned about that?

  2. MBlanc46

    Sixty+ years ago, when I was a youth and the “civil rights movement” was just hotting up, our betters told us that if we’d only abandon segregation, the “race problem” would simply disappear, time-frame unspecified. I was just an early adolescent, so I certainly didn’t have any evidence to think that what I was being told was wrong. And, looking back, I can see that even my elders, especially those who had little contact with blacks, can be forgiven for thinking that perhaps the official narrative was correct. Integration had never been tried, so who was to say that it wouldn’t turn out to be a giant love-fest? Fifteen or so years later, the evidence was beginning to come in that, even if the goal was attainable, the road to it was going to be a very rough one. Sixty+ years later you have to be a complete naive or be wearing ideological blinders to believe that blacks and whites can live in harmony, even in some unspecified time in the distant future. As far too many whites are either complete naives or are wearing ideological blinders, no rational, empirical analysis of the “race question” is allowed. So this will not end well.

    1. philmon Post author

      Mblanc46 … I’m going to have to disagree with you on one point. Black people and white people CAN live together in harmony, and for the most part, they do.

      It’s the shit-stirrers, and they’re mainly white liberals — who keep … pardon my French, f***ing it up, and they do it on purpose — because they hate America and want to replace it with either an anarchist utopia or a socialist utopia … neither of which exist, and that is literally the meaning of the word “utopia”.

      Destroying social order is the SOP for socialists working toward this goal.

      1. contrariandutchman

        It is in the nature of democracy and modernity that the shit-stirrers ye shall always have with you.

      2. MBlanc46

        Well, Philmon, for the most part, blacks and whites don’t live together. Blacks have their neighborhoods and whites have their neighborhoods. The neighborhoods can co-exist without a lot of conflict until something sets the blacks off, usually some encounter between some black punk and the police. Then all hell breaks loose. Racial solidarity impels blacks to loot and burn for a few days. Then things calm down and the two communities go back to co-existing peacefully. Until the next time. This has been the cycle for more than fifty years. It shows no sign of going away.

        1. Severian

          That’s the main thing I was getting at in my “lost friends” post, when I said that I sincerely believed my former friends “got it” when it counted. Yeah yeah, NABALT, there are lots of fine African-Americans who share my values, but the average Black — the statistical average, the one you’re likeliest to pull out of any random sample — is always on the verge of chimping out. Always.

          This is how it is, how it was, how it ever shall be. Heredity is what it is. When the chips are down, you just can’t trust them. And you certainly can’t trust them when — as always happens — their “cousins” from the nearest major metro come to “stays with” them for a while. You might as well call the realtor as soon as you see the moving van start unloading down the block; you’ll be doing it in two to five years anyway.

          Does that sound ugly said out loud? Sure. Do I want to say it? No. But see below — now it has to be said, because you can’t assume anymore, not even with someone you thought was close. These were buddies I thought would have my back if we had to bring the guns out — turns out they’d stab me in it, for the sake of not being called “racist”…

          …and, of course, as we all know, they’re going to get called “racist” tomorrow anyway.

          So there it is. Can “America” be salvaged? Sure, some kabuki version of it. It might even be pretty nice, materially. All that has to happen is: You stay on your side of the tracks, and I’ll stay on mine… and anyone who suggests crossing the tracks in the name of “inclusion” or, god help us, “diversity” gets immediately deported.

      3. WOPR

        Most of us are old enough to have heard, “If we just get rid of the race hustlers, it will all be fine,” for decades now. Yet, they are still with us because they will always be with us. So, why do they hold so much sway over the black community, and to a lesser extent other minority communities? It is mainly because people are tribal by nature and race is at the beginning of the hierarchy.

        I’m sure you know some fine black people. I do as well. It doesn’t matter. Ask yourself, why those fine black people from Africa never created something resembling a semi-decent second world country?

        I spent almost 15 years after college living in a working class neighbor that was what you would call a checkerboard. Some areas were fine and others were slums. My experience with blacks was:
        – broken rear window while driving because I went down the “wrong” street. Pre-cell phone days, I stopped at a funeral home down the street to call the cops. The black owner had to be convinced to let me use his phone.
        – three burglaries with one definite black suspect going out the back door as the wife came home
        – watched and scared off two black guys trying to steel a car in the grocery store parking lot. (BTW, it took me so long to recognize what they were doing because I told myself “don’t be racist and assume those two black guys in the car leaning out are up to no good.”
        – daughter’s Christian school started to allow voucher kids in. Within three months, the racism claims were flying left and right.

        Bonus: My sister lives in an upper-middle class area, all whites and sprinkling of Asians. Single black lady moved in with her family. Soon began complaining that neighbors weren’t treating her nicely. Come one of her son’s graduation, he had a party that resulted in a shooting and one person going to the hospital.

        Bonus+: My wife had a black roommate who she keeps in touch with. Nice family and neither daughter has married because marriageable black guys are about non-existent.

        So no, I don’t believe it can work. The exceptions are too few. An example I always use is that just because some people have survived jumping from out of a plane with a failed parachute, doesn’t mean everyone should jump without parachutes. Just because a small portion of blacks can integrate into white society, doesn’t mean all of them can or want to.

        In the end, I treat blacks as individuals. That doesn’t mean I want to live around them or integrate them into society. I simply want them to live how they want away from me.

        1. Severian

          There it is. Back when it was possible to communicate with adults as adults, we could have these conversations. The words “hate” etc. would never come up. Do I hate Blacks? No. Do I wish them harm? No, I don’t wish harm on anyone (except incorrigible White liberals). Hell, I’m even sympathetic to a lot of their gripes.

          But do I want to live around them? No.

          Mostly what I am is tired. Tired of their shit. Tired of their dysfunction. And most of all, tired of being blamed for their dysfunction. Anyone — anyone — can get his shit together in America if he really tries. Blacks have several entire Federal Departments of Helping You Get Your Shit Together, at enormous taxpayer expense. With my high school grades and SAT scores, I got into a local yokel college on a small scholarship. Had I been able to tick the “African-American” box, I could’ve flipped a coin between Harvard, Yale, and Princeton, all on a full ride. That right there is close to a quarter million dollars of help in getting shit together, to say nothing of the social connections, etc.

          If you can’t get your shit together with those enormous, almost inconceivably huge advantages, then you’re just not interested in getting your shit together.

          And you know what? That’s fine. I had an uncle who drank himself to death. I can’t even begin to reckon up the enormous amount of money, time, sweat, pain and tears a vast number of people put into trying to help that guy. Didn’t matter. He just wasn’t interested in getting better, so he didn’t. He made his choice, and eventually we all cut him off — we chose not to live around him, so as not to get some of the gutter splashed back on us.

          Wish we could do the same with our Diversity.

          1. Pickle Rick

            They’ve had 155 years to get their shit together in this country, the one that fought a civil war to free their ungrateful black asses. There was never plantation slavery in Detroit, Minneapolis, Chicago, or any other city they have, locust like, destroyed.

            And I’ve been to Africa, they had millennia to get their shit together there, and still haven’t.

            I’m done playing nice.

  3. philmon Post author

    That, though, is a cultural issue, not a hereditary issue. As can be shown by the many fine black people whose culture it isn’t.

    I’ve met black people from Africa. They are nothing like the ones what passes for American Black Culture produces. They are some of the most polite, well-mannered, gentle people I’ve met.

    So no. I will not go down the heredity road. That road leads to genocide at some point.

    As to the shit-stirrers, I’m not proposing we try to get rid of them. You are right, they will be with us always. What I AM proposing is that everyone, black, white, green, or purple-pokadotted — learn to recognize them and when they are trying to manipulate you.

    1. MBlanc46

      I do go down the heredity road. I also understand that behavioral characteristics, like physical characteristics, are distributed according to a Gaussian distribution. Certainly, there are decent, hardworking American blacks at the decent/hardworking end of the curve. I’ve known quite a few of them myself. But, in general, the American black mean is shifted toward the undecent, non-hardworking end of the decency/hardworkingness curve, compared to whites and Asians. In “The Talk: White Version”, John Derbyshire details pretty clearly the effect this should have on white reaction to the presence of blacks. Regarding African black migrants, I trust you don’t imagine that you’re seeing a random sample of Bantu behavior. If you do, a few minutes of watching or reading the news from Africa will disabuse you of that notion. I am aware that the bleep-stirrers are working overtime. I’ve half a century of experience of the sort who are behind the present chaos. They would get nowhere if there weren’t tens of thousands of people just waiting to be stirred. The segregation to which Severian refers at the end of his reply to my comment does not have to be totally racially based. It might well be behaviorally based. My guess is that blacks would be over-represented on the violence and chaos side of the tracks and that whites would be over-represented on the law and order side. People who want to loot and burn can knock themselves out on the other side of the tracks. If they bring it over to our side, we just shoot them.

      1. philmon Post author

        People who want to loot and burn can knock themselves out on the other side of the tracks. If they bring it over to our side, we just shoot them.

        You do know that a lot of these people are white Antifa peoplem right? The brownshirts for the white liberal shit-stirrers. And that a lot of the black people are, in fact, peacefully protesting, though I don’t think they understand the core issues.

        So I assume you will shoot looters and burners, black or white, no? And if there are black people not looting and burning, you’ll leave them alone?

        1. MBlanc46

          Absolutely. Your question suggests that you assume that anyone who speaks realistically about race in America is a “raaacist!”

    2. contrariandutchman

      We -are- on the road to genocide at this very moment and the past week has demonstrated that the entire Western establishment plans to race down that road. How do you think the cultists propose to resolve the problem of structural racism?

      1. philmon Post author

        “How do you think the cultists propose to resolve the problem of structural racism?”

        If they come to do that, they will have to deal with my arsenal. But you know what? Those are mostly white liberals. They are the shit-stirrers.

  4. kirkforlatt

    I’m kinda curious, Philmon…are you a pastor or church leader of some sort? I ask because your “This is a cultural issue, not a racial issue” schtick is one that I’ve heard many times from the pulpit boys.

    You’re arguing from the exception, and the exception does not prove the rule. “I’ve met black people from Africa, and they’re nothing like the ones….American black culture produces.” Who were these black people? Black pastors? A group that some paid missionary trotted out like an evangelical Best In Show? People seeking refuge/citizenship/financial assistance? I knew a white missionary who died on a lonely road in Haiti because the people he gave his life ministering to didn’t do a fucking thing to help him when he was in a wreck. They did, however, take his wallet and his personal belongings. I’m sure that was a cultural thing, not a racial thing.

    You won’t go down the heredity road, eh? Well, then, you’d better check your Google Maps, because you’re on the wrong fucking road. Every single group on this whirling ball of dirt EXCEPT white people are on the heredity road, and they don’t want to be redirected to some off-ramp that white do-gooders are enthusiastic about. You might not care about the heredity road, but the heredity road cares about YOU.

    You’re worried about the heredity road leading to genocide. Fine. I’ll just say it: so fucking what? MY people, the white people of America (and the whites in the rest of the world, actually) are already marked for genocide. Even the street joggers talk about it freely and easily. We’re the only group who won’t defend themselves, and the only group who collaborates with the very groups who are openly, nakedly, blatantly announcing that they want to eliminate us. Hell, at least the American Indians fucking FOUGHT. What do we do? We start every sentence with “I’m not a racist, but…”

    So if my people becoming not just aware, but becoming violently resistant to this white genocidal bullshit is the main depot on the Heredity Road…so what? I’m assuming you’re white, Philmon, so if you’re more concerned about the vague possibility of genocide than you are about the almost CERTAIN destruction of your own people, why in the living blue fuck should anyone care about YOUR concerns? Let’s say you’re right. Let’s say that white people becoming racially aware and tribalistic in America and then rising up and exploding in ferocious, intelligent violence against the peoples and groups who wish us harm results in the genocide of, oh, black people in America. So what? Are you more concerned about them than you are the children who look like you? Are you more concerned with them than you are the living, breathing descendants of your fathers? Why do you hate your own heritage? Why is the Heredity Road such a shameful boulevard? Lots of species go extinct every year…why aren’t you worried about them? Why would the (highly, HIGHLY unlikely, even in a mega-Civil War II, Electric Boogaloo situation) destruction of the blacks in America be so bad? What would be lost? Do they maintain our infrastructure? Do they make our lives better? Do they make our granddaughters safer?

    You propose we “try to get rid of” the shit-stirrers. Oh, lovely. Tell me more. What are you going to do, offer them money to leave? If that works, you’ll deserve YOUR Nobel Prize much more than Barry Sotoro deserved his.

    Take heart, though, Philmon. You’re not alone. Every coward-ass, soft-handed, whispery-voiced pastor is in agreement with you. Whatever we do, we must NOT go down the heredity road. Because it might lead to something that would be no more significant than the annihilation of white people. Because you’re okay, with that, I assume.

  5. philmon Post author

    I have to say, I’m a bit stunned by some of the comments I’m reading here. Because if you all really believe what you’re saying… the race hustlers are right, in the main. And I find that as discouraging as the problem itself. “It’s genetic” is the core tenet of racism. There’s no getting around that. If you believe that, then you ARE racist, not by some knee-jerk reaction or wobbly spaghetti rationalization, but by the simplest definition.

    But the worst of it comes from KirkForLatt, as it appears I have run across my first, bona-fide, genuine, alt-right person.

    I’m just going to say flat out. I reject and despise your worldview. Period. There’s probably no point in going on here. But I’ll press on a bit, for the sake of others, and to clarify my position to anyone who may have any doubt. I’m afraid you — are probably a lost cause. That is up to you.

    No, I’m not a pastor or a church leader. Haven’t been to church in decades outside of a wedding or funeral, or the occasional visit to a friend or relative who is religious and I go to be polite. I feel a bit bad about that, because I believe culture matters, and by checking out of that I am checking out of what was at the core Western Culture after reaping its benefits as a child- and it’s not a great example for my grandkids.

    “I am proposing we try to get rid of them” was one of the worst typos I’ve made in a long time. It WAS (I fixed it) supposed to say ” I’m not proposing we try to get rid of them.” Because it changes my meaning 180 degrees. You may have noted my next sentence was:

    “You are right, they will be with us always” — which didn’t jive with the previous sentence until I fixed it.

    I am not opposed to mercilessly mocking them.

    Of course exceptions do not prove a rule – I always thought that saying was nonsense anyway. But here’s a rule I’ve learned – what appears to you to be the cause of something is often not the cause at all, so you’d better be able to back up and question your assumptions or you’ll never solve the problem.

    “…. it might lead to something that would be no more significant than the annihilation of white people. Because you’re okay, with that, I assume.”

    No idea what would lead you to that assumption. It’s simply not true. I imagine it’s some short in your mental wiring that leads to that.

    So let’s just go over these questions.

    ”Who were these black people? Black pastors? A group that some paid missionary trotted out like an evangelical Best In Show?

    Mainly students who came here from their respective countries to get an education. Boy, you’ve got a bug up your butt about religion, don’t you? It explains a lot.

    Are you more concerned about them than you are the children who look like you?

    No, but I am AS concerned about them as I am about people who look like me. I have a different definition of “OUR” than you do. My tribe is not defined by physical appearance, but rather by worldview.

    Are you more concerned with them than you are the living, breathing descendants of your fathers?

    Some of the living, breathing descendants of my fathers are assholes. Heredity is fine as far as it goes, but it no more makes me a better person than having a slave-owner as an ancestor would make me a worse one.

    Why do you hate your own heritage?

    I don’t. My heritage is cultural, not genetic. And it is precisely my heritage that leads me to reject your worldview. And I’m proud of that.

    Why is the Heredity Road such a shameful boulevard?

    Um …

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

    That’s MY heritage.

    Lots of species go extinct every year…why aren’t you worried about them?

    Bit of a tangent here, but I’ll assume your point is that black people are just another species, as I assume that you believe white people are a species, and that sometimes one species kills another off in the process of evolution and you’re good with that. And that at your core, you’re a nihilist at best. So you see, it is you and not me that would be ok with the killing off of all white people. Lots of species go extinct every year. Right? The short answer is, my heritage teaches me that men are above animals, and that all people are of the same species, homo sapiens.

    Why would the (highly, HIGHLY unlikely, even in a mega-Civil War II, Electric Boogaloo situation destruction of the blacks in America be so bad?

    Shit, you’re going to make me say it, aren’t you? Because Black Lives Matter.

    What would be lost?

    Innocent people’s lives.

    Do they maintain our infrastructure?

    Some of them do. Frankly, a lot of them do. Many of them work precisely these jobs.

    Do they make our lives better?

    Some of them do. Black doctors. Black philosophers. Thomas Sowell is one of my biggest heroes.

    Do they make our granddaughters safer?

    Some of them do. A lot of those are black cops.

    My heritage, my tribe, is well described in Bill Whittle’s “Tribes” — the opening of which includes this, but it’s merely setting the assumptions of the rest of the essay that follows:

    I believe that the human animal – the raw material of our physical bodies – is essentially interchangeable. By this I mean that I could take the children of Fallujah and turn them all into Astronauts, convert Jewish babies into fanatical, mass-murdering SS guards, and shake a generation of the poorest Voodoo-worshipers in Haiti into a cadre of top-flight nuclear physicists, chemical engineers and computer scientists.

    Race has nothing to do with this – precisely nothing. The mobs of murdering Hutus and swarms of slaughtering Serbs are as different racially as it is possible to be, and they are cut from precisely the same cloth.

    I know this is so because there have been murdering scumbags of every stripe and color in the long history of the human race – which is depressing – and that these animals, at any given time, represent only a small percentage of the majority of people, also of every stripe and color – which is not. There is no corner on virtue, and no outpost of depravity. Human hearts are indistinguishable and interchangeable. Anyone who claims otherwise is, without further argument or statements necessary, a complete God-damned idiot.

    Here’s the deal, Sparky. You think your heritage is “white”, which means jack nothing. In fact, you have lost the moral rudder of your heritage, and I urge you for your sake and for the sake of those whose lives you so cavalierly disregard — to try to find it.

    1. WOPR

      Whittle does a great job there of confusing nature, nurture, and morality. Finding the line between nature and nurture if full of peril. However, denying genetics is full on stupidity. Whittle would be lucky to turn the generation into assembly line workers. The average IQ in Haiti is 67. There are maybe a handful that could be chemists, etc. But, a whole generation, it is laughable to even make such a statement. Only with intelligence do people somehow think genetics don’t apply. Everything else and people easily accept such differences. Oh, and I think Bill needs to realize this was tried in the past with Native Americans and Aborigines. Let’s just say there is no thankfulness for those attempts.

      His SS statement is where he veers into morality. Morality is nurture tinged by nature. Blacks have moral abilities just like anyone else. Few would argue that. So, what exactly is his point there? Again, few would argue that intelligence is a sign of goodness. He’s simply confused in his thinking.

      If I believe races exist and that makes me a racist, then what? I don’t want to exterminate anyone. I don’t wish ill on anyone. I’ve lost enough chess games to a rainbow coalition to not judge individuals by race. I simply prefer to be separate. As Severian said, I’m tired of trying to make something work that isn’t going to work. I don’t agree with a lot of what Kirkforlatt says, but he’s not the problem. It isn’t white supremacists running amok. So rail at him all you want. Meanwhile, your heritage is being tossed into the dustbin of history. Ask any of the left about the Declaration of Independence and they’ll lecture you on white privilege and racism. The only way to remove that is to remove Jefferson and what he said. Everything in our heritage has to go and they still won’t be happy.

      1. philmon Post author

        “If I believe races exist and that makes me a racist, then what?”

        Whoah there. Getting way ahead of the horse here.

        Nobody here is saying races don’t exist.

        That’s what our self-proclaimed betters on the Left … I’d say “think” but even they aren’t *that* stupid … well not most of them. Yet. But they want to sell that clearly ludicrous idea. They have ulterior motives.

        I’m saying culture is software that runs on our biological hardware, and that culture is not determined by genetics. To the extent that the fringes of the curves of one race or another might be less compatible with a particular culture, I say that culture would vastly overwhelm that on a mass basis.

        If you think culture is genetic — if you don’t think culture can’t change running on the same gene pool, look around you. It’s changing, fast, and not for the better.

        1. WOPR

          I’m saying culture is software that runs on our biological hardware, and that culture is not determined by genetics.

          Software and hardware are interdependent. Hardware places restrictions on what the software can do and vice versa. Genetics influence software because you just aren’t going to get some outcomes if the genetics aren’t there. It may be difficult to determine where the line is, but it is there.

          The reason why races living in close proximity to each other is a problem is genetically, not culturally, people gravitate towards people similar to themselves. And, like it or not, physical differences are simply to obvious to ignore. That’s why earlier I said race is at the top of pile when it comes to how people differentiate among each other.

          Let’s say you had a 24/7/365 of propaganda on races doesn’t matter and individuals only matter. Add in that there weren’t any pot stirrers. But, let’s also admit that ratio groups have different curves of intelligence. So, let’s give the greens a slightly higher median IQ than the blues. Now, let’s say the difference is large enough that a significant proportion of blues can never attain to anything more than factory work. There are a few that can handle more mentally demanding professions but they are far fewer than the greens. It doesn’t matter what you say, the blues are going to end up resentful. They see vastly more greens in better jobs and positions of authority. They are going to think the greens are cheating them. Who wouldn’t? You might say the greens have their lower classes. Yes, but their fellow greens look similar to them. There isn’t an out of the gate answer.

          Finally, I’m not arguing that culture is not important. I am arguing you are ignoring basic human nature. The country is more diverse than ever and the culture is collapsing. That’s not a coincidence. It’s because your view of culture is just words. Culture is a living, breathing thing that is tied to people, places, and their history. Blacks reject the culture for obvious reasons. Indians, Chinese, etc. don’t care about it. Virtually all of them are here for a buck. It doesn’t matter that a few want to embrace the culture. Your path has been tried for decades and has failed. Give me some reason why the magic incantations are going to work this time.

    2. MBlanc46

      I don’t know long you’ve been hanging around here, Philmon, but I’m a bit stunned that you’re stunned that there are a lot of race realists here. We understand that, due more than a century of elite propaganda that behavior is entirely a matter of culture (as if culture itself didn’t have a biological basis [check out the idea of biocultural co-evolution]), our view is a minority view. But it seems clear to us that the empirical evidence is overwhelmingly in our favor. We don’t think that race is a social construct, we believe that race is a biological reality that has multidimensional effects in the world. It doesn’t much concern us that this might lead to “racism” because we believe that “racism” is a bogus category created by the Left to police thought and speech. The Left have been building social policy on the “race is a social construct” proposition for about seventy years, and you see the results: riots, looting, burning, and people dying. It’s not we race realists who are responsible for this, it’s the people who try to run society based on a bogus ideology.

      1. philmon Post author

        I think race is a biological fact, and that culture is a social construct, and that the two things are different, and that one doesn’t cause the other. They still correlate pretty well because of history, geography, and the way that culture is passed from one generation to the next, and the fact that cultures can be so different as to be incompatible – which tends to prelude racial mixing within a culture. But you’ve heard it a zillion times, correlation does not mean causation. If you’re not asking, “well what else could cause this” … you’re not using anything like the scientific method.

        I believe that any culture can “run” on any person of any race. I see it every day. The exceptions are not biological anomalies, they are the result of different cultural software being loaded onto them as children by their parents. The exceptions were forced, by adoption of a new culture, not by some genetic mutation that caused or allowed them to behave differently.

    3. contrariandutchman

      Bill Whittle is a dangerous idiot, a monster, or both.

      Gnon created all humans and human tribes differently. And that is fine, or should be. The entire problem here is people denying that these differences exist and since they do exist, insisting they must be eradicated at all cost.

      Since the differences cant be erased we end up with cities burning and a genocidal mystery cult taking over the US and spreading to Europe.

      1. WOPR

        I don’t think Whittle is a monster or an idiot. Simply for shorthand purposes, he’s a Boomer. I’m a fairly early Gen-X, so I can see why they are how they are. They were marinated in “I only see the individual” and “Race doesn’t matter.” Of course, they lived in an +80% white country. It all made sense. Now, most of what they believed has proven to be wrong. They can’t understand why blacks and now other minority groups are still the way they are. So, they cast about for reasons, double down on anti-racism, signal more that they aren’t racists, and offer undue praise to any minority that uses a crosswalk. Also, they’ve gotten into how great all of the interracial families and kids are. They are stuck in a loop because they can’t face the reality of being wrong.

        Heaven knows it would be a lot nicer if what they believed were true. But, life isn’t fair and it isn’t true. I marinated in it enough that it still pulls at me. It’s the old Coke commercial. It is an ad for something that never could exist.

        1. Severian

          That’s where I am. I really really really wish the old CivNat pieties were true. I’d love to live in the Boomers’ world — unlike the SJWs’ world, it seems like a really nice place, all in. A sort of Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood, but worldwide.

          Alas, that’s not how it is. What’s so funny ’bout peace love and understanding? They end in riots and, soon enough, genocide. That’s hilarious.

        2. contrariandutchman

          Well, as far as I’m concerned, Whittle, and his boomer cohorts, either understand that what they are saying is blatant dangerous drivel and say it anuway for cheap moralising points, and then they are monsters, or they truly think the drivel is true, and that makes them dangerous idiots. Very dangerous since their antics are well on the way to inflicting another 30 years war on the US and parts of Europe, and it would be so easy to avoid.

          1. ryan

            I think of them as young earth creationists. They’re not idiots or unintelligent. It takes a lot of brain power to make a plausible case for why carbon dating is bunk. And they’re not monsters, genuinely nice people almost all of them.

            Which leads me to this conclusion: large groups of nice and intelligent people who all believe the same pile of absolute goat fucking lunacy is simply part and parcel to the human condition. It’s just how homo sapiens rolls man.

            Tiger got to hunt, bird got to fly; Man got to sit and wonder ‘why, why, why?’ Tiger got to sleep, bird got to land; Man got to tell himself he understand.

            Second conclusion: this whole freedom of religion thing is just a bad idea. Think about how much better off we’d all be if the state picked one of the milder forms of protestantism and made everyone practice it. A Methodist ruled America would be heaven compared to an SJW ruled America.

  6. kirkforlatt

    Hey, I appreciate the response, Philmon. It told me everything I need to know about you, except how you found out that my secret nickname is Sparky. Glad to know you’re not a churchian.

    In the history of the world, no one has ever fought and died for a “culture.” The reason the US military’s record for the last 75 years has been so abysmal is because no one gives a shit about fighting and dying for “democracy,” just as no one gives a shit about “culture.” White Southerners get all wrapped around the axle about their “culture” and their “heritage” being targeted, but it ain’t biscuits and gravy or mint juleps that our enemies are attacking. It’s white people, white peoples’ ideas and values, and white men’s families.

    It may very well be that white people have been selected for extinction. We sure as hell ACT like we have been. White men don’t fight. We tolerate. White men watch their daughters bring home Dontavius and they tolerate it. But no white man has ever laid in bed at night and thought, “I HOPE my daughter marries a jogger.” No. Not ever. When it happens, we twist ourselves around in knots to find ways to make it more palatable (“He’s a good Christian,” or “He seems to treat my daughter with respect” or “He’s never been in jail”) but none of us actively WANTS such a thing. We want our grandchildren to look like us. But when Karen shows up with Dontavius, we grin like mules eating briars while our dreams die.

    That’s not culture. That’s blood. And it matters. If we’re selected for extinction, so be it. And that doesn’t mean I’m a nihilist. I am a Christian, devoted to Christ. But not the Christ of the churches who closed their doors during this Covid scam. Not the churches who annually honor a plagarizing, adulterous Communist fool who had the good luck to get himself martyred. Not the churches who march in lock-step unity with every philosophical point your average tv talk show hosts blathers about. I’m a Christian, but I’m alone. And that’s ok. I accept it. What I don’t accept is your worldview. I’d rather fight and die like some desperate Commanche facing a troop of Texas Rangers than to spend my days worrying about whether I offended some subhuman piece of trash with some throwaway remark I made.

    So good luck with your devotion to your culture. I’m sure your African buddies will devote a lot of time and effort in helping you preserve it. They have a great track record in that regard.

    1. philmon Post author

      “It may very well be that white people have been selected for extinction. We sure as hell ACT like we have been. “

      That’s because our culture has changed and there are those who are trying to change it further still, for the worse. They’re mostly white liberals. This is not a good thing.

      Your solution appears to be to align by race, which puts you in with the white liberals. My solution is to fight the cultural disease they have introduced and fostered.

    2. ryan

      It’s all the Quakers fault really. All that stuff, no judgement, no solidarity, infinite inclusivity, pure Quakerism.

  7. philmon Post author

    “In the history of the world, no one has ever fought and died for a “culture.”


    What was the American revolutionary war about? For that matter, what was the Bolshevik revolution about? I could go on. They weren’t about blood.

  8. philmon Post author

    The reason the US military’s record for the last 75 years has been so abysmal is because no one gives a shit about fighting and dying for “democracy,” just as no one gives a shit about ‘culture.’

    I agree. This is due to the cultural rot white liberals have introduced. They are the ones teaching us to hate our culture, our heritage. The attack on our culture does not have its roots in race. Race is simply being used as a means to get us to lose faith in our culture.

  9. kirkforlatt

    “Your solution appears to be to align by race, which puts you in with the white liberals.”

    Nice try. If within my family, a member of the family tries to destroy my family, that member will be removed from the family, one way or the other. I don’t shrug and say, “Well, he’s a member of the family, so I have to tolerate what he’s doing.”

    I expect you’ll soon trot out the “What is ‘white,’ anyway?”

  10. philmon Post author

    Nice try. If within my family, a member of the family tries to destroy my family, that member will be removed from the family, one way or the other. I don’t shrug and say, “Well, he’s a member of the family, so I have to tolerate what he’s doing.”

    That doesn’t change the fact that in your basic argument, aligning by race is somehow superior to aligning by worldview.

    Even you discarded that family member because that family member’s worldview didn’t jive with yours. But you continue down the race road anyway.

  11. kirkforlatt

    “What was the American revolutionary war about? For that matter, what was the Bolshevik revolution about? I could go on. They weren’t about blood.”

    Cheese and chalk, I think. The Revolution was fought for the freedom and independence of a group of white English descendants who were being treated unfairly by a sovereign nation far away. Those bluecoats weren’t fighting for some amorphous “culture.” They were fighting for their homes, their women, their people. Their enemy happened to be white as well. Later, their enemy was red-skinned. The American Revolution and its sons were indeed “about blood.”

    The Bolshevik revolution was conceived, started, and carried out by a group of people known for their hatred for white people. They were the ancestors of the people you call “white liberals.” It most certainly was “about blood.” Solzhenitsyn recognized this.

  12. kirkforlatt

    Part of the problem here is that the idea of being called a “racist” or being seen as a backwards hillbilly because of personal convictions actually SCARES you, Philmon. This fear colors everything you believe and say. Just as white girls are willing to die to prove they’re not racist by dating the black thug with his “Whassa matter? You rayciss? You don’t like black men?” manipulations, you’re willing to ignore all sorts of real-life facts because acknowledging them would align you with repugnant types like me. I am not hamstrung by those fears. Appearing respectable is the least of my concerns.

    Oh, and I forgot to correct you on something earlier. I am anything BUT “alt-right.” I suspect you know this.

    1. philmon Post author

      “Oh, and I forgot to correct you on something earlier. I am anything BUT “alt-right.” I suspect you know this.”

      No, I don’t. I think you’re in denial. The beliefs you state align close to perfectly with it.

    2. philmon Post author

      Part of the problem here is that the idea of being called a “racist” or being seen as a backwards hillbilly because of personal convictions actually SCARES you, Philmon.

      Uh, no. BEING one would “scare” me BECAUSE of my personal convictions, but as a local Tea Party leader in a liberal town, I’ve grown pretty thick skin over what people call me. I know what I believe, and I’m not afraid of it at all. I, like everyone else here, am simply weary of the charge.

      Heh, what a laugh! Anyone calling me a hillbilly is far closer to the truth than you imagine. Got no problem with hillbillies. I grew up with hillbillies. Most of us are good people. I grew up bucking hay, milking cows, slaughtering pigs and chickens, hunting, trapping (and eating) squirrels and rabbits, cutting wood to heat our house, and square-dancing. And I’m pretty damned proud of all that. [Cue: Hank Williams, Jr. “Country Boy Can Survive”]

      Note those are things that I did, not what I am biologically. Skin color is something I was born with. Culture is what was given to me by others.

      you’re willing to ignore all sorts of real-life facts because acknowledging them would align you with repugnant types like me.

      ENNNNNNNNNT!!!!! Try again.

      I’m not ignoring them at all. I just think the actual problem isn’t being addressed. And again, in the end, it can’t be addressed by you and me. It’s not our problem to address. I just believe it CAN be addressed, and until that is tried, it’s never going to get better.

      Outside of the fact that you’re apparently willing to excuse genocide, I’m not afraid of being associated with people like you, but I WILL point out where I think you’re in error. It’s not YOU I reject, its your worldview – and it’s BECAUSE you think, like the liberals do, that race determines culture, and apparently in racial superiority. I don’t.

  13. philmon Post author

    “We want our grandchildren to look like us”

    I can honestly say I no longer care. Some of the best looking kids I’ve seen were biracial. I care about who they are, not their genetics.

  14. kirkforlatt

    “I can honestly say I no longer care. Some of the best looking kids I’ve seen were biracial. I care about who they are, not their genetics.”

    Well, there it is.

    Been kinda fun, but this reminds me of why I rarely comment on blogs anymore. No one, least of all the two of us, is going to be convinced of anything or have our minds changed by this back-and-forth. I’ll muzzle myself.

    I hope you get the world you’re working towards, Philmon. Good and hard.

  15. Wildgoose

    I am 90% on the side of the post author, “philmon”, in that I believe it’s about Culture.  I would prefer a decent hard-working non-white to the typical screeching “white” harpy.  But I’m not so naïve as to think that there isn’t a genetic component to IQ.

    But let’s just agree that the current idiocy is yet more deliberate polarisation by the Left – and like philmon says: We really need to deal with these race hustlers – of whatever “colour”.

    Right now, non-whites keep quiet because there is no downside to them from the antics of the race hustlers. That needs to change.

    Perhaps the best way to deal with this is to deliberately give them a lot of what they ask for – but making sure they ALSO get all the unintended consequences that go along with the new policy.

    A few years of that and the loudest voices shutting them up might not be “white”…..

    1. philmon Post author

      Perhaps the best way to deal with this is to deliberately give them a lot of what they ask for – but making sure they ALSO get all the unintended consequences that go along with the new policy.

      Well it looks like we may get a real chance to see this in Minneapolis. If they really go through with it, it’s gonna be ugly for a lot of people, especially those the virtue-signalling city council thinks it’s “helping”.

      And who knows? Maybe it will help, in the way that “rock bottom” can help an alcoholic. We’ll see, I guess.

  16. Maus

    Hey, Sev, I take it this Philmon guy was some type of collaborator (heh) at the origin of this blog. I don’t think he’s too familiar with the Fourteen Readers. He seems to be thoroughly imbued with a crippling commitment to egalitarianism that most of us find risible.
    All I’ll say is that I didn’t think it was possible to be more depressed about the state of American society than I was when Wuflu was the stick being employed to beat the mules like us. But, sadly, the BLM lunacy has turned it up to eleven. My lifelong commitment to a reasoned search for truth now seems to have been an exercise in utter futility. I’m reminded of Aquinas, who experienced an alleged mystical vision (it could have been a stroke) and thereafter declared all that he’d written was so much straw. But I don’t even get the consolation of a vision, just the daily diet of dystopia that is engulfing us.
    I want to be clear. I am angry. I see no peace in trying to endlessly accommodate blacks’ evident shortcomings and the constant demands born of their envy of whites’ accomplishments. But I have no desire to kill them in some genocidal Endlosung. I agree with you, Sev, that a hard separation is the necessary and sufficient approach. I just don’t see it happening in a rapid and widespread manner before the coming demographic replacement makes it impossible. Our culture will be lost; and this leaves me deeply embittered.
    On a side note, what is the status of your blog project on the Meditations. It seems to have gone moribund, which under the present circumstances is completely understandable. I know I wrote that I was abandoning ship; but if I saw some evidence in the comments that the sort of young men who your trying to reach are actually reading, I’d reconsider. Or maybe the reality of life in 2020 is simply not conducive to the fatalistic equanimity of a Stoic. The Roman Stoics were a little too keen on suicide when further resistance was futile. I simply cannot go there.

    1. Severian

      Rotten Chestnuts has always been a group blog. I posted the most, but I’m far from the only author.

      Philmon and I are old friends from way back. People change, and one of the great things about blogs, especially group blogs, is that you can watch the process in realtime. I used to feel pretty much exactly as he does in this post — and by “used to” I mean “as recently as three or four years ago.”

      Since then, I’ve been radicalized. Part of it is being around young children a lot more, and wondering what kind of future they’re going to have. I’d gotten used to the scared, bewildered, and yet somehow unbearably smug and self-righteous, mugs of college seniors getting ready to go off into the world… but hey, those were “grown ups,” at least theoretically. They’re on their own. But kids?

      But mostly it’s just a lifetime of Leftist bullshit. What Marx said would happen with capitalist society, has happened to them now that they’ve been in charge all these years — the contradictions have finally become too overwhelming, and the whole structure is collapsing. Race is simultaneously “nothing but a social construction” and “an immutable characteristic,” with a side order of “the only thing that matters.” Gotta pick one, fellas.

      Race is what it is. Heredity is what it is. You don’t have to be a PhD geneticist to see that pit bulls are different from golden retrievers — fundamentally, immutably. You can train both to be “good dogs,” but within hard limits — they will always be what they are, because chromosomes work like that. So it is with humans (are y’all finally feeling me when I say I’m the only guy I know who really believes in evolution?).

      It seems to come down to this: Blacks can’t live in White society without certain restraints that White people themselves find intolerable. Including me — Jim Crow laws are evil. The question is, are they necessary evils?

      I say no. There’s another. Peaceful separation. And it doesn’t even have to be strictly racial! Any White who wants to go live in New Wakanda may do so, with my enthusiastic blessing. May you finally find the “social justice” you so desperately seek. As I’ve said, freedom of association is the only right that matters. If we can’t have it in one country, together, then it’s time to go our separate ways.

      1. Pickle Rick

        They won’t allow us to separate. They hate us so much that they will immolate this country in blood just like 1861-65 just to force us to obey them.

      2. philmon Post author

        I say no. There’s another. Peaceful separation. And it doesn’t even have to be strictly racial! Any White who wants to go live in New Wakanda may do so, with my enthusiastic blessing.

        Which is what happened in Schlicter’s “Kelly Turnbull” series, which I found highly entertaining.

    2. philmon Post author

      I think you’re reading more in to what I’m saying than is there. You should know this post was not written for the benefit of people on the right, but as a counter-point to “Saying ‘all lives matter’ is like saying ‘all children are special’ at a child’s funeral after mom says her child was special”.

      I say there’s a big difference between the two situations, and my purpose was to point this out. That’s what prompted the post.

      Severian and I agree on far more than we disagree on … this basically boils down to the finer point of “do genetics beget culture”? I say they don’t. I say culture begets culture (and social pressure within them create cultural inertia). Might there be SOME genetic influence? Sure, I wouldn’t count it out. I think it would be subtle and not geared toward dysfunction and dystopia. As I’d said in a private conversation with him, you’re going to have to show me the overlapping bell curves of the measures of things that are genetic that would condemn a particular ethnic group to a crappy culture which produces crappy outcomes.

      What I’m really saying is the only people with any real power to fix the problems in the black community is black people themselves. By changing their culture. Many of them realize that. Few can say it. Some do. I think they can. He thinks they can’t. One thing for sure is, they aren’t.

      Otherwise – we’re in agreement.

      If you’re willing to judge black people on an individual basis and not excusing genocide, I can live with that. But once you start excusing genocide, you’ve lost me.

      If you are at all curious about how I really feel about separation, I rather enjoyed Kurt Schlitcter’s caricaturized, but accurate portrayal of what would happen if America split into Red and Blue (not Black and White) in his Kelly Turnbull series. I’d be squarely on the red side.

      When black parents raise their kids red, they generally turn out to be decent people. I think there’s something to that. But it rarely happens. Because cultural inertia is strong.

  17. MBlanc46

    “Separation”. The magic woid. May the duck come down and give you a hundred bucks. And not just between (most) blacks and (most) whites. The Leftists are going to have a go at creating their multicultural, polymorphously perverse paradise on Earth. There aren’t enough of us to stop them, even if we have a mind to do so. So just let them do it away from us. Even if that means some of us having to relocate (northeastern Illinois is lost, so I might have to exit). I wish that we could just “go in peace” but I’m pretty sure that it won’t happen that way. But however it happens, it’s the optimal outcome.

  18. philmon Post author

    Multiculturalism is an oxymoron. It’s a lie. There is no such thing as a “multi-culture”. It’s a recipe for … well, for what we’re seeing today.

    And that’s no accident.

Comments are closed.